Cliched Arguments - Part V

Cliched arguments – Part I

Cliched arguments – Part II

Cliched arguments – Part III

Cliched arguments – Part IV

Gurbani – Part II

Cliché argument 23: Guru Ramdas says to call a pandit to read Purana and put the ashes in the Ganges after his death.

ਅੰਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਮੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਕਰਿਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥

ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥

ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਬੇਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਵਏ ॥

ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਤਲਿ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਦੀਵਾ ਫੁਲ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਿ ਪਾਵਏ ॥

ਹਰਿ ਭਾਇਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੯੨੩

Reality: Oh yes, and I’m an alien who’s uploading the content from Pluto.

You know what, this has already been answered in Hum Hindu Nahi. I actually try not to answer those questions which are there in the book, but some of them are still circling on the Internet, so writing it here. That’s why I tell you guys to read Hum Hindu Nahi, because it exposes the BHs and SSs. Doesn’t matter what they’re telling us or their opinion about the book, the truth is they do not have any counterargument against the answers written in the book. For that reason, they say it’s a book to divide the Sikhs and Hindus. Sikhs and Hindus are already divided on the basis of their religions, but it doesn’t mean that in a society both the religions are living hating each other, no. We’ve co-existed for so long, and will co-exist, but the religions are different and distinct; it’s not rocket science.

So what is the reality of this cliché?

The very first point that it’s said by Guru Ramdas ji is wrong. It’s the bani which is known as sadd, showing the last days of Guru Amardas ji. They do not even know whose last days are captured in there, and they’re making their argument on that. How stupid they are! It’s very much evident if a person reads the whole bani that it talks about the next guru – Guru Ramdas ji.

ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸੋਢੀ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥੫॥

How could it be about the last days of Guru Ramdas ji then?

Even the combined efforts of the BHs and SSs couldn’t disprove that the pandits who were egotistical and always ready to do the karam-kand were guided by the Sikh Gurus, and their rituals were shunned. Many verses from the bani of Guru Amardas ji can be read. (Here we are reading the verses written by the third guru because it’s said that the guru asked to bring a pandit to read the other religion’s holy scripture.)

ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਉਚਾ ਕੂਕਦਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨ ਚੀਨਈ ਮਨਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਜਗਤੁ ਪਰਬੋਧਦਾ ਨਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰ ॥੧॥ - ਅੰਗ ੮੬

ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੜਿ ਵਾਦੁ ਵਖਾਣਹਿ ਤਿੰਨਾ ਬੂਝ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੮॥ - ਅੰਗ ੯੦੯

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਮਹਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੧੨੮

The mainstream Hindu pandits who’re indulged in the chanting of all the mantras and reading scriptures but the Naam are called foolish. So these foolish people who’re not aware of anything but karam-kaand would be called upon during the last rites? Seriously? Isn’t it obvious those who translate the verses like these belong to the same community? For them, their rituals and rules are perfect and should be adopted by all. These days when the people are mocking the rituals of the Hindu tradition, some people come with the lamest justifications to prove their point. They still do not want to abolish them. The rituals which’re shunned by the Sikh Gurus, they want to see the gurus doing the same because it hurts their ego to know the very nature of their tradition which’s followed by many can’t be rebuked by anyone.

So to overcome this problem, they use the Sikhs and their scriptures and history. It will not be wrong if I say the Sikhs are made in the image of the Sikh Gurus, means all the rules of the religion were firstly followed by the gurus and then they gave us. Selfless service, fighting against injustice, equality, etc., all were firstly done by the gurus, and then they passed down to the Sikhs.

Were the pandits called, or the guru said to call them? Of course, the guru asked to call the pandits, but not the Brahmanical pandits who were chanting the mantras in the names of gods and goddesses. There are two types of definitions. First one is the one practised by the Hindus; second one is the one that gurmat gives. We’ve seen in the aforementioned verses the pandits of Hindus who misguide the common people; even in these days you can see them on many social media platforms to push the Sikhs into an abyss with their explanation. On the other side, we have the pandit of gurmat.

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਧੈ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੁ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ॥ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕੈ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੨੭੪

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਇ ॥ ਤ੍ਰੈਗੁਣ ਕੀ ਓਸੁ ਉਤਰੀ ਮਾਇ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੮੮੮

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋ ਤਿਹਾਂ ਗੁਣਾ ਕੀ ਪੰਡ ਉਤਾਰੈ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਓਹੁ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਲੇਇ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਸੀਸੁ ਧਰੇਇ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੧੨੬੧

These pandits should be called. According to these definitions, do those pandits fall into the criteria? No. So these pandits are nothing but the Gursikhs (it will come in one of the translations, will come to that.) As I’ve written it earlier too that according to the work done by a Sikh, they could be called anything. Here, to define the Sikhs, the definitions of the Brahmins will not work. Only how the Sikh Gurus defined the words should be considered.

There are eighteen Puranas, and again eighteen sub-Puranas. But do Sikhs read these scriptures in their ceremonies? No. In Anand Sahib, Guru Amardas ji has clearly written that without guru’s word, everything is kachi bani (false words.) If the words not spoken by the guru is called kachi bani, why would the same guru tell the Sikhs to read those kachi banis?

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਕਚੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੯੨੦

To have a clear picture, let’s understand the meanings now.

Who is Keso Gopal Pandit? In one of the meanings, all the three words are for Waheguru. Many of the Sikhs know the name Gopal comes for Waheguru many times in gurbani, but very rare of you have read Keso and Pandit words for Waheguru. Here are some verses to prove that.

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੇਸੋ ਕੇਸੋ ਕੂਕੀਐ ਨ ਸੋਈਐ ਅਸਾਰ ॥ ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਵਸ ਕੇ ਕੂਕਨੇ ਕਬਹੂ ਕੇ ਸੁਨੈ ਪੁਕਾਰ ॥੨੨੩॥ - ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੬

ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਖਾਣੀ ਭੋਗੀ ਪੜਿਆ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਆਪਿ ਥੀਆ ॥੯॥ - ਅੰਗ ੪੩੨

Secondly, we’ve the ashes dropping into the Ganges. There’re many rivers in India which’re called holy in the Hindu scriptures. But for us Sikhs the gurus said the Naam is the only option, and Sikhs read every day in Jap Ji Sahib that by listening to Naam you get all the boons that the holy places can provide; actually, more than that.

ਸੁਣਿਐ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਕਾ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ॥

The argument that they’re trying to make with the ashes is that the guru is telling the importance of the Ganges. The third guru, Guru Amardas ji, who himself used to go to the Ganges, stopped doing that once he got to know about Guru Angad Dev ji, would tell to go to the Ganges to drop the ashes!? Why did he stop going there at the first place? And, also, let me tell you one more thing: never once for a second think the gurus went to those places for any reverence. The guru is inexplicable. We sometimes use to tell the gurus used to go to the deity or the holy places before they’re given the Guruship. To make a point that the importance of those places once the True Guru was found was negligible makes so much sense. The other way that the Singhs tell is the gurus went there to show themselves to the deity and the holy places because they’re Waheguru Themselves and the deities and the holy places yearn for the darshan of Waheguru.

The same Ganges which’s asking the third guru to dip his feet into the water to clean her from the sins of the people, the guru told to go to that place which couldn’t rinse its sins? Never. The Ganges yearn for the guru to come and release her from the pain.

ਗੰਗਾ ਆਦਿਕ ਤੀਰਥ ਜੇਈ । ਮੱਜਹਿਂ ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲ ਨਰ ਤੇਈ ।
ਅਨਗਨ ਪਾਪ ਤਜੈਂ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਂਹੀ । ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਭਾਰ ਸਹਾਰਤਿ ਨਾਂਹੀ ॥੬॥
ਯਾਂਤੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਾਧਾ । 'ਆਨਿ ਚਰਨ ਪਾਵੋ ਹਤਿ ਬਾਧਾ ।
ਪਾਪਨਿ ਤੇ ਪੀੜਤਿ ਹਮ ਹੋਏ । ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੋਸ਼ੁ ਹਮਹੁਂ ਮਹੁਂ ਧੋਏ' ॥੭॥ - ਰਾਸ ਪਹਿਲੀ, ਅਧਿਆਇ ੪੫, ਸੂਰਜ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼

Let me translate the verses in the cliché now.

Meaning I

ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ - (ਸਦਿਅਹੁ) Call those (ਪੰਡਿਤ) gursikhs/scholars who meditate on the Naam and do the (ਕਥਾ) discourse of the (ਪੁਰਾਣੁ) Primeval Being. Or the (ਪੰਡਿਤ) pandit, who’s Waheguru ((ਕੇਸੋ) Keso (ਗੋਪਾਲ) Gopal), (ਸਦਿਅਹੁ) call (ਹਰਿ) Evergreen (ਹਰਿ) Being (chant His Naam) and do the (ਕਥਾ) discourse of the (ਪੁਰਾਣੁ) Primeval Being.

ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਬੇਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਵਏ ॥ - Do the (ਕਥਾ) discourse of (ਪੜੀਐ) reading the verses of (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru, (ਸੁਣੀਐ) listen to (ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ) His Naam, this (ਰੰਗੁ) loving (ਹਰਿ) Him is (ਬੇਬਾਣੁ) funeral bier that the (ਗੁਰ) guru (ਭਾਵਏ) likes.

ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਤਲਿ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਦੀਵਾ ਫੁਲ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਿ ਪਾਵਏ ॥ - Waheguru’s grace is (ਪਿੰਡੁ) pind [or chanting the Naam is (ਪਿੰਡੁ) pind], chanting the Naam is (ਪਤਲਿ) patal, chanting Waheguru is (ਕਿਰਿਆ) kiriya, the Naam-like (ਦੀਵਾ) lamp should be ignited, the (ਫੁਲ) ashes should be (ਪਾਵਏ) put in the (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru-like Sadhsangat’s (ਸਰਿ) pool [or praises of Waheguru should be made like the Ganges].

The meaning of the above line is same that Guru Nanak Dev ji has written.

ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਤਲਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਕੇਸਉ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥ ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਆਗੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਏਹੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ - ਅੰਗ ੩੫੮

ਦੀਵਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੇਲੁ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੩੫੮

A little more information on the terms came in this shabad should be useful to the readers. The Hindu way of doing the rituals after the death is something like this: Pind is making the balls of barley (or rice?) flour; patal is a plate of foliage; kiriya is following the tradition of the Hindus scriptures, like sharaad and all.

Meaning II (according to aanve)

Chanting the Naam of (ਕੇਸੋ) Keso is doing the (ਪਿੰਡੁ) pind, chanting the Naam of the (ਗੋਪਾਲ) Protector of Earth is giving the (ਪਤਲਿ) patal, (ਸਦਿਅਹੁ) calling the (ਪੰਡਿਤ) Gursikhs who know Waheguru is the (ਕਿਰਿਆ) kiriya, chanting the (ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ) Naam of Waheguru is like burning a (ਦੀਵਾ) lamp, getting the (ਫੁਲ) inspiration to get into the Sadhsangat-like (ਸਰਿ) pool of (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru, instead of reading the (ਪੁਰਾਣੁ) Puranas, (ਪੜਹਿ) read the (ਕਥਾ) katha of the (ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ) Evergreen Waheguru, (ਪੜੀਐ) read the (ਕਥਾ) katha of (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru and (ਸੁਣੀਐ) listen to (ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ) His Naam, the person who’s (ਬੇ+ਬਾਣੁ) without (doesn’t believe in) the duality of the words (religious books) and (ਰੰਗੁ) love (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru, only he’s (ਭਾਵਏ) liked by the (ਗੁਰ) guru.

Meaning III

ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ - (ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ) Keso Gopal who’s the real (ਪੰਡਿਤ) pandit, (ਸਦਿਅਹੁ) call Him; and the (ਪੁਰਾਣੁ) primitive name of (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru is the (ਪੜਹਿ) reading. Or (ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ) Keso Gopal who’s Waheguru, His devotees who’re (ਪੰਡਿਤ) scholars, (ਸਦਿਅਹੁ) call them, and (ਪੜਹਿ) read the praises of Waheguru with them and chant the name of (ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ) Waheguru it’s like doing the (ਕਥਾ) discourse of the (ਪੁਰਾਣੁ) Puranas.

ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਬੰਧਪੁ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਭਾਈ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੪੯੦

ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਬੇਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਵਏ ॥ - (ਪੜੀਐ) Read the (ਕਥਾ) discourse related to (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru, (ਸੁਣੀਐ) listen to (ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ) His Naam, and (ਰੰਗੁ) loving (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru is what’s (ਭਾਵਏ) liked by the (ਗੁਰ) guru.

ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਤਲਿ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਦੀਵਾ ਫੁਲ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਿ ਪਾਵਏ ॥ - The five thieves (lust, anger, attachment, ego, greed) inside the (ਪਿੰਡੁ) body are very big, making them smallest is doing the (ਪਿੰਡੁ) pind and giving (ਪਤਲਿ) patals, this (ਕਿਰਿਆ) action should be performed and ignite the (ਦੀਵਾ) lamp of enlightenment. Or to have the knowledge-like (ਦੀਵਾ) lamp, make the (ਕਿਰਿਆ) efforts and get (ਫੁਲ) inspired to be in the (ਸਰਿ) pool of Sadhsangat of (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru. Or those whose ego because of the (ਪਿੰਡੁ) body is (ਪਤਲਿ) shrunk (means it’s gone), and have the knowledge of meeting Waheguru and performed some (ਕਿਰਿਆ) actions, they got (ਫੁਲ) inspired and met (ਹਰਿ) Waheguru (achieved Oneness), by (ਪਾਵਏ) meeting Waheguru they become like Him – (ਸਰਿ) Oneness – means there’s no difference between them.

Meaning IV

ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ - Someone asked the guru during his last days that some people are saying to call Keso Gopal pandit, who’s your Sikh, and he will read the stories of Waheguru from the Puranas. What are your thoughts?

ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਬੇਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਵਏ ॥ - Guru Amardas ji said instead of reading the Puranas, read the verses which will help to meet Waheguru, Guru Angad Dev ji likes the love of Waheguru as vimaan.

Vimaan has multiple meanings. The one what people do when an elderly person dies; they would make it look like a ceremony of a wedding, with bands and drums they’d take the body of a person for cremation. I remember when I was in Punjab, I saw the same happening. Firstly, I thought it’s some wedding ceremony, then I saw the people carrying the body on the bier. In Mahan Kosh, the second meaning of vimaan is bier also.

By ignoring all the above explanation, if a person still tries to bring the pandits to read the Puranas during the last days of the guru, then what would he say about the verses which come in the same shabad?

ਅਵਰੋ ਨ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੇ ॥

Without guru’s shabad, without the Naam of Waheguru, there’s nothing. How’d the guru say to bring the Puranas during the last rites? There’s one more question that arises which is that the people who say the Hindu rituals were done after the Joti Jot of the third guru, don’t they make it look like that without reading the Puranas and doing the sharaad or other ritualistic acts the guru wouldn’t go into Sachkhand? Or he’d have to go through the Court of Yamraaj? Don’t they belittle the image of the guru with these stories? Isn’t it what they’ve been doing for long? Trying to change the Sikh Gurus into a group of people who worshipped their supreme deities in their verses?

The English translation which’s available on the Internet has its own limitation because it doesn’t give the different meanings of the verses like we’d above. But in this case, at least, it’s clear, but the BHs don’t use the verses from there because they expose them.

‘Finally, the True Guru said, When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa. Call in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and listen to the Lord’s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-balls on leaves, lighting lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord’s Pool.’

Cliché argument 24: The guru worshipped Salagrama and he mentioned in his verses.

ਸਾਲ ਗਿਰਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਸੇਵਾ ॥ ਪੂਜਾ ਅਰਚਾ ਬੰਦਨ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ - ਅੰਗ ੩੯੩

Reality: This is another mistranslation of a guy who doesn’t have a brain or any understanding of gurbani. I remember reading it the first time on the blog Sanatan Sikhi which’s run by a SS named Arjan Singh Virdi.

If I am not wrong then a Salagrama is some kind of shell/stone related to Vishnu. Almost all the SSs and the BHs put most of their focus on the reverence of Vishnu. Because of this reason, they want to see the Sikh Gurus doing the same. Let’s read the full shabad.

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਉਦਕ ਇਸਨਾਨੀ ॥ ਸਦ ਹੀ ਭੋਗੁ ਲਗਾਇ ਸੁਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਬਿਰਥਾ ਕਾਹੂ ਛੋਡੈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਲਾਗਹ ਪਾਈ ॥੧॥

ਸਾਲ ਗਿਰਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਸੇਵਾ ॥ ਪੂਜਾ ਅਰਚਾ ਬੰਦਨ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਘੰਟਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਸੁਨੀਐ ਚਹੁ ਕੁੰਟ ॥ ਆਸਨੁ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਸਦਾ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ॥

ਜਾ ਕਾ ਚਵਰੁ ਸਭ ਊਪਰਿ ਝੂਲੈ ॥ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਧੂਪੁ ਸਦਾ ਪਰਫੁਲੈ ॥੨॥

ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਸੰਪਟੁ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਜਾ ਕਾ ॥ ਅਭਗ ਸਭਾ ਸੰਗਿ ਹੈ ਸਾਧਾ ॥

ਆਰਤੀ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਅਨੰਦ ॥ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਸਦਾ ਬੇਅੰਤ ॥੩॥

ਜਿਸਹਿ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਲਹਨਾ ॥ ਸੰਤ ਚਰਨ ਓਹੁ ਆਇਓ ਸਰਨਾ ॥

ਹਾਥਿ ਚੜਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਲ ਗਿਰਾਮੁ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਦਾਨੁ ॥੪॥੩੯॥੯੦॥ - ਅੰਗ ੩੯੩

This shabad was uttered by the fifth guru to show the Right Path to a pandit who’s a worshipper of the Salagrama. But as the narrative of Arjan Singh Virdi goes, he tries to say the verses were said by the first guru because he wanted to prove the first guru as the worshipper of Vishnu. Now, the guy who doesn’t even know who wrote the verses is telling the story to justify his claims. I really hate to know stupid people. Without them, this blog wouldn’t have been possible though; So I can at least give them that.

History is very much important if we want to know the Sikh Religion. So let’s get back into history at the period of Guru Arjan Dev ji. There’s a Sikh named Bhai Kalyana, let me narrate his story.

There’s a king to whom Bhai Kalyana went to meet. The king was the worshipper of stones. During the time of Janam Ashtami, the king ordered to do fast and go to the temple in the morning and chant ‘Krishna Krishna’ to the people of his place. But Bhai Kalyana who’s a Sikh didn’t do this. The people who say the Sikh Gurus worshipped Vishnu in the forms of his incarnations fail here, because a Sikh is not following the tradition of the Hindus about the chanting of the names of the deity, then how the Sikh Guru would do that!

When the people asked him why he didn’t do the fast and worshipped the stones, he said the Sikhs do Simran, not these unnecessary rituals. They got agitated by that and said he didn’t know anything about Salagrama. They went to the king and told this story. The king asked of the man.

The Sikh now elaborated his faith and the guru that he followed. As the king was listening to him, he’s getting furious to hear the words and stories which’re against what he’s practising. The king asked his man to chop off the leg of Bhai Kalyana. He prayed to the guru to save him at this hour. Before the servant of the king could execute the order of the king, the king fell from his throne, unconscious. Later, when the people there realized what they’d done, he apologised to the Sikh.

The story goes long. My point here is the Sikh didn’t believe in worshipping the Salagrama or any other stone for that matter. Then how the people are claiming the Sikh Gurus to be worshippers of stones? The first guru who’s represented as the stone-worshipper on the blog, read his verses below.

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥ ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ - ਅੰਗ ੫੫੬

ਸਾਲਗ੍ਰਾਮ ਬਿਪ ਪੂਜਿ ਮਨਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤੁਲਸੀ ਮਾਲਾ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਬੇੜਾ ਬਾਂਧਹੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥੧॥

ਕਾਹੇ ਕਲਰਾ ਸਿੰਚਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਕਾਚੀ ਢਹਗਿ ਦਿਵਾਲ ਕਾਹੇ ਗਚੁ ਲਾਵਹੁ ॥੧॥ - ਅੰਗ ੧੧੭੦

Guru Sahib says the pandits are worshipping the Salagrama, they’re wasting their lives.

The fifth guru encountered a pandit too who’s worshipping the stones. The guru had a talk with him. When the pandit asked him why he didn’t worship the stones, the guru said he worshipped the One who’s always in the water in the form of all the sea animals (this was to say that you wash/bathe your Salagrama, but the One that I worship he’s always immersed in water), means present everywhere, and He always got the offered food through the devotees when they ate. His command-like bell is heard in all the corners of the world. The last verses have the words Saal Gram, which means the One who gives excellence (ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟਤਾਈ), and He’s visible now with guru's grace. In Suraj Parkash, below verses come.

ਇਹ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹਮਰੋ ਭਾਰਾ । ਜੋ ਸਭਿ ਕੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਭਾਰਾ ।
ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਊਚਹਿ ਊਚਹਿ ਊਚਾ । ਇਹ ਸਮਸਰ ਕੋ ਨ ਪਹੂਚਾ ॥੫੫॥
ਹਮ ਰਿਦ ਮਹਿਂ ਸਦਾ ਬਸਾਯੋ । ਨਿਸ ਦ੍ਯੋਸ ਨਕਬਹਿ ਭਲਾਯੋ ।
ਗਨ ਦੀਨ ਬੰਧੁ ਜਗ ਨਾਥਾ । ਨਿਜ ਸੇਵਕ ਕੇ ਨਿਤ ਸਾਥਾ ॥੫੬॥ – ਤੀਸਰੀ ਰਾਸ, ਅਧਿਆਇ ਅਠਾਈਵਾਂ

In Gurbilas Patshahi Chevi, the same incident is mentioned but with the below verses, which make it clearer.

ਤੁਮ ਪਾਹਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੋ । ਕਿਆ ਏਹ ਹਾਥ ਤੁਮਾਰੇ ਧਰੋ ।
ਝੂਠਾ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਾਨੈ । ਸਤਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਚੇਤਨ ਨਿਜ ਮਾਨੈ । …
ਜਲ ਥਲ ਸਭ ਘਟਿ ਛਾਇਯੋ ਸਭ ਕੀ ਲੇਤਾ ਸਾਰ ।
ਆਸਣ ਜਾਂਹਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਹੈ ਘੰਟਾ ਬਜਤ ਅਪਾਰ ॥੫੫॥ – ਅਧਿਆਇ ਤੀਜਾ 

Before some BHs and SSs start using their brains, I’d clear a thing here. This incident is said to be happened between the fifth guru and a pandit in Darbar Sahib. According to the story, the pandit was sitting near the sarovar and when the guru walked past him along with the other Sikhs, he didn’t pay any attention to him or his rituals. The pandit was shocked to see that how the guru didn’t see him, bow to him, etc. When the guru came while doing the parkarma of Harmandir Sahib the second time, then started the discussion between the pandit and the guru.

Now, those BHs and SSs who when know this story would do chest-beating that the pandits were allowed to worship stones in Darbar Sahib as it’s mentioned in the Sikh scriptures. The thing is all the anti-gurmat stories in the historical scriptures will be picked by them. When this story comes, Bhai Vir Singh ji mentioned, ‘But the possibility of the pandit sitting with his stones near the sarovar during the time of Bhai Santokh Singh ji is shifted to the period of the Sikh Gurus. At the time of Bhai Santokh Singh ji, the fake Sikhs and Dogre’s power was increased and they’re Brahminizing the Sikhism, under their power the Brahmins started sitting around the sarovar with their stones. At the time of Guru Arjan Dev ji, Harmandir Sahib was just built yet, the city was also small, where small Sikh labourers were living in numbers. The religion of the guru, since Guru Nanak Dev ji, didn’t believe in the stones; the Brahmins in numbers, especially around Harmandir Sahib, and a Brahmin siting with a Salagrama in front of the guru, not even bowing to him and expecting the guru would bow are impossible things. At our time, the Brahmins used to stand in respect even when a small person would come. And from guru’s shabad it is clear that the guru wouldn’t allow him to sit with stones. In the house of the Formless One, the guru of the religion wouldn’t let anyone put a stone in there. In Mehma Parkash, this is not there.’

When the Sikhs asked the guru why he’s building Harmandir Sahib, the guru replied so that the Sikhs could sit and sing the praises of Waheguru.

There’s another possibility of the pandit around the sarovar, which is he might not be knowing about the place and the rules of Sikhs, absentmindedly he might have entered the complex and sat and started his worshipping. Asking the guru to bow to the pandit is assertive of the fact that the man didn’t know about the Sikhi and the Sikh Gurus, if he’s present around the sarovar, otherwise he would have known the Sikh Gurus wouldn’t bow to a pandit. The presence of the pandit at the time of the guru or at the time of Bhai Santokh Singh ji doesn’t affect the below conclusions.

1.      It’s evidently clear from the verses that the gurus didn’t worship either the stones or Vishnu. There’re a certain set of brainless people who say the stones had been installed in the Sikh Holy Places since the period of the first guru. And the gurus worshipped the stones. AV is one of those scumbags who wrote on his blog. The same is true for the BHs and SSs. This cliché clears the both.

2.      Harmandir Sahib was created to sing the praises of Waheguru, the deities and the Brahminical rituals were condemned by the gurus. So the possibility of worshipping of teeny-tiny deities is zero.

Give some time to BHs and SSs, and you’ll see them saying a person can get happiness from Hardwar because Gurbani says so:

ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਦੁਆਰ ਪਰਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ - ਅੰਗ ੨੦੦

Cliché argument 25: Gurbani says Vaishnavism is the best religion.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਕਾ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਧਰਮ ॥ – ਅੰਗ ੨੭੪

Reality: Help me comprehend how the above verse tells Vaishnavism is the best religion.

I’ve been saying that Hinduism is not one religion but an amalgamation of multiple religions/sects like Vaishnavism, Shivaism, etc. But some ignorant people say it’s one entity, not multiple. If it’s true that there’re not multiple religions in Hinduism, and the meaning of Baisno is a devotee of Vishnu, then according to the above verse Dharam comes in a sense of the religion of the person. Doesn’t it make Vaishnavism as a religion then?

The first word in the verse is tis (that). Means there’re some things mentioned before that on the basis of which it’s concluded. All the Sikhs who read Sukhmani Sahib they know the earlier verses too.

ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਜਿਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥

ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਹਕਰਮ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਕਾ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਧਰਮ ॥

The real Vaishnav is the one on whom Waheguru is happy, the one who’s beyond the indulgence in the worldly matters, the one who doesn’t ask anything in return, that Vaishnav’s religion is pure. How the ‘best’ part came in here? In actuality, the guru is not saying it in any way that the devotees of Vishnu are best and all. No. The guru is saying a true Vaishnav is not the one that the people have defined, the one who worshipped Vishnu, but the one on whom Waheguru’s grace is. Like I’ve said many times, there’re two types of definitions. One is what the Hindus believe in, one is of the gurmat. In the same ashtpati, the guru defined a pandit too.

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੁ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ॥

ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕੈ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਬਸਾਵੈ ॥

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਮੂਲ ॥

ਸੂਖਮ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ॥ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਅਦੇਸੁ ॥੪॥

If someone, who’s a pandit, is going to pick the last line that the guru is doing the namaskar to a pandit, then the person is a fool. The guru defined the true pandit, not the one who boastfully says he knows the Vedas and other Sanskrit scholarly books.

Likewise, the guru talked about Vaishnavism.

Also, Baisno has another meaning too: the devotee of the Omnipresent.

Cliché argument 26: Shivji is one of the three main gods of the Hindus. Sikhs tell openly that they don’t worship Shivji, but their scripture says to worship the god.

ਸਿਵ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਅਉਧੂ ਅਲਖੁ ਅਗੰਮੁ ਅਪਾਰੀ ॥੮॥ - ਅੰਗ ੯੦੭

Reality: I read it recently on Quora, which has become the hub of BHs to propagate their theories because it’s very easy to get traffic to your answers than starting a website or blog.

Let me narrate this fact also that the BHs have been accepting Dasam Guru Granth Sahib as the bani of Guru Gobind Singh ji. I think, somehow, they now realize it’s the biggest mistake that they ever made regarding the Sikh scripture. For example, a BH was in a debate with me where he used the verses from the scripture to prove the tenth guru the worshipper of Shivji. Now as the verses from the Dasam bani start daunting them, they’re cleverly and slowly denying this to be the authentic writing of the tenth guru. The same BH wrote on some answer:

There are many contradictions in the Dasam Granth. That’s why many scholars like W.H. Mcleod, Bhai kahan Singh Nabha, Ratan Singh Jaggi, Prof. Harinder Singh Mehboob etc. consider it to have been corrupted by many interpolations.

I’ve not read the work of McLeod, but I can assure you that Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha believed in the writing of the tenth guru and the same can be seen in his books too. Ratan Singh Jaggi had written a book with his observations, which’re cleared by Professor Piara Singh Padam in his book Dasam Granth Darshan. Harinder Singh Mehboob’s book Saheje Racheo Khalsa is a massive book with more than one thousand pages. And I can bet that the BH didn’t even read the book himself because the theory that he’s building up that the Sikh Gurus were the worshipper of Vishnu and the Vedas are best would have been smashed with an iron-fist-like commentary by Mehboob’s writing. Yes, it’s true that Mehboob didn’t believe in Dasam Guru Granth Sahib and gave his point of view on the matter. But the Khalsa Panth believe in the bani of Dasam Guru Granth Sahib ji.

The interpolations by the BHs mainly revolve around the words which they’ve assumed to be their gods. And many of the clichés that we’ve discussed have the same thing: misinterpretation of the verses by the BHs and SSs. Same is true in this cliché. The word Shiv has multiple meanings. Now if a person is hellbent to prove Shiv has one meaning as Shivji then I can’t do anything. I can just show you the truth, accepting that is upto you.

So the meaning of Shiv in the verse is Kalyan Saroop – Waheguru.

Last three words are very important in the verse which clear everything.

Alakh – Invisible.

Agam – Imperishable. Beyond the thoughts – ineffable.

Apaari – Beyond this world, without beginning and end.

Gurbani tells us that the trinity of gods are getting the commands from Waheguru, Waheguru is seeing them, but the trinity of gods can’t see Him. We read this every day.

ਜਿਵ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਚਲਾਵੈ ਜਿਵ ਹੋਵੈ ਫੁਰਮਾਣੁ ॥

ਓਹੁ ਵੇਖੈ ਓਨਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਏਹੁ ਵਿਡਾਣੁ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੬

We also read that Shivji is because of the time/Waheguru. And those who call Shivji as the Immortal Being, who will always be there, know nothing of Waheguru.

ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥ - ਚੌਪਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਸਿਵਜੂ ਅਵਤਰਾ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਕਰਿ ਬਿਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸਾ ॥ ਸਕਲ ਕਾਲ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ - ਚੌਪਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ

So on what basis should I accept the translation of BHs when the gurbani contradicts their point of view?

Cliché argument 27: Guru Gobind Singh ji sought the boon from Maa Parbati in the below verses:

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋ ॥
ਨ ਡਰੋ ਅਰਿ ਸੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਇ ਲਰੋ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰ ਅਪਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕਰੋ ॥

Reality: This has been debunked many times on this blog as well as on Quora, whose link I provided in the cliché 26. Some other links I can provide here.

Did Guru Gobind Singh ji seek blessings of Shivji/Parbhati?

Did Guru Gobind Singh ji worship a deity?

Those who call the Sikh Gurus the worshippers of any god or goddess should really stop doing that. You’re worshipping someone, we Sikhs are really fine with that. But misguiding the young Sikhs with your wrong interpretation is very wrong at all the levels of intellectualism. You call yourself the people who know about the Sikh scriptures, but in truth you’re as lost as your ancestors were at the time of the Sikh Gurus. This is why you’re still pushing the wall.

Cliché argument 28: There’s only one Krishna, the one born in Dvapara Yuga, from whom everything came to be.

ਮ; ੨ ॥ ਏਕ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੰ ਸਰਬ ਦੇਵਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵਾ ਤ ਆਤਮਾ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੪੬੯

Reality: Okay, it’s time to write something that I’d not read earlier. Someone commented on our YouTube channel that he’s talking about Krishan, not Vishnu. I was a little shocked to read that because Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu, so his comment was not making much sense. I mentioned the same and ignored that.

Recently, I got to know about a group named ISKON, which believes Krishna to be at the top of the hierarchy of all the gods. And this Krishna they call to be the one who came on earth in the Dvapara Yuga. In parallel to Ramchandra, the votaries of Krishna had started claiming their god to be supreme. Some Hindus do not believe that and shunned the teachings of ISKON as arbitrary. ISKON also published the Bhagwat Gita. I do not know much of the background of this group, but thought of stating this fact that there’re certain people who call Krishan to be Supreme, and you might not have heard it like me.

Now as the votaries propagate that there’s only one Krishna, then that means Qazi is also Krishna. Shocked? I tried to explain this in Praises of Krishna in Gurbani – misconceptions and answers series. This is what happens when we do not get the meanings of the words but started talking about the deities and their names.

ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਸਰਾ ਨਿਬੇੜੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਹੋਆ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੯੦੩

How can a Qazi be Krishna? Are we saying the Qazis in Islam are all Krishna and elevating them to Krishna? No, we’re not. But, yes, those who’re bending the meanings or associating the deities with the words, they should agree to this point because they do not want to go with the meanings but words. So the above verse clearly says ‘Qazi Krishna hoya.’ But they will not agree to this because this’ll go against their propaganda. I talked to an SBH on Quora, he’s suggesting the same that Krishna is mentioned, so that’s for the one who came on this earth in Dvapara Yuga. And then something amazing happens, which usually happens while I debate with someone. I brought the above verse in discussion.

Losing his ground, he turned and went to the meaning now, that how Krishna means black (and according to him it’s mentioned in his holy texts.) Then why earlier we’re talking about the deity, not the meaning?

In the cliché, the word Krishna(g) has a meaning, and it’s not associated with the incarnation of Vishnu, or some being who came down on earth in Dvapara Yuga as the members of ISKON believe in. This Krishna(g) comes for Waheguru. It’s many meanings: the one who doesn’t have any weakness; Smearless One; One who’s the power and is blissful. You can check many other meanings here.

Guru Amardas ji clearly states that Brahma created the Vedas and still indulges in Maaya; Shivji is indulging in ego; Vishnu is incarnating himself, then by attaching/following to/ who the people in the world achieve Oneness? Here all the main deities have said to be indulging in Maaya, or that nobody can achieve Oneness by following them. Those illogical BHs who suggest that the Sikh Gurus praised Vishnu and were under the circle of Vaishnavism, here it destroys their argument because the guru said nobody could pass this worldly ocean without the True Guru. Brahma is gone, which many people do not worship anyway. Shivji is gone. Vishnu is gone. Where’re the verses praising these demigods then?

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਰਗਾਸੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥

ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਵਰਤੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਤਾਮਸੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥

ਕਿਸਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਅਵਤਾਰੀ ਰੂਧਾ ਕਿਤੁ ਲਗਿ ਤਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਰਤੇ ਜੁਗ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚੂਕੈ ਮੋਹ ਗੁਬਾਰਾ ॥੩॥

ਸਤਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ - ਅੰਗ ੫੫੯

Mind you, the word for Vishnu here is Kisan. See, this is how Gurbani works. There’re many meanings of one word. Even I was not aware of meaning of Kisan can be Vishnu until I got to know this verse. So always focus on the meanings.

Lastly, one of the words in the given verses is Niranjan. Niranjan means the One who’s beyond Maaya, or the One who doesn’t indulge in Maaya. This’s a known fact and few BHs also agree that Gurbani says the deities are indulging in Maaya, or came into existence and weren’t there before the Beginning. Although the HBHs blame the Sikh Gurus to some extent that they lowered the image of the Hindu gods in their verses. In truth, they’re always lower if compared to the Supreme Being. The guru says he’s the follower/servant of the One who’s Niranjan, which none of the deities are.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦੇਉ ॥੩॥

So, the Supreme Being can have any names corresponding to His actions or His attributes. He can be called Ram, Allah, Waheguru, Krishna(g), etc. But the individual deities can’t be associated with Waheguru, just because of the same names. To read more, please check The Sikhs and the Hindu gods.

Cliché argument 29: You Khalistanis always try to separate the two religions with your bickering. The fifth guru himself said that the fourth guru was a Vaishnav. Vaishnav, someone who follows Vishnu and praises him.

ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ॥ – ਅੰਗ ੮੬੭

Reality: Yeah, when some BHs and SSs get tired and can’t convince the other party, they use these words sometimes. And when they do it, they show their incapacity to make a proper and flawless argument.

Let’s read the whole shabad first.

ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ਬੋਹਿਥ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ॥ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣ ॥

ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਰਮਤ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਮ ਪੰਥ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਬੀਚਾਰ ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤਹ ਮੰਥ ॥੧॥

ਤਉ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਪੂਰਨ ਨਾਥ ॥ ਜੰਤ ਅਪਨੇ ਕਉ ਦੀਜਹਿ ਹਾਥ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ॥

ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ॥ ਮਿਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ ॥੨॥

ਕਰਣ ਪਲਾਹ ਕਰਹਿ ਸਿਵ ਦੇਵ ॥ ਤਿਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਬੂਝਹਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਵ ॥

ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ ॥ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥੩॥

ਮੋਹਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਿਛਹੂ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਤੇਰੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਦੀਨੁ ਜਾਚੈ ਤੇਰੀ ਸੇਵ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ॥੪॥੧੫॥੧੭॥

The central idea of the shabad is the One is ineffable. So many people try to fathom Him. Even Shivji and other deities cry for His darshan, but none of them could understand a small fragment of Waheguru. There’re only few people in the world who’re blessed to do bhagti of Waheguru.

Coming to the word Ramdas. Who is Ramdas? Is it for the fourth Sikh Guru? Well, there’re many meanings of this word too.

Ramdas: a Sikh of Guru Arjan Dev ji; devotee of Waheguru; people who sing the songs in the temples; devotee of Ramchandra; Masands; the guru of Shivaji Maratha; the fourth guru of the Sikhs.

Now you can understand out of all these meanings why the fourth-guru meaning was picked by BHs. For propaganda.

In Mahan Kosh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha used the meaning ‘devotee of Ramchandra’ for Ramdas and gave the verse in the shabad. This means the devotees of Ramchandra don’t understand the way of Waheguru, achieving Oneness. Why? Because they’re not worshipping the One. In Gurbani Arth Bhandar many meanings are written, but in Amir Bhandar, the word is used for the followers of the guru of Shivaji Maratha. His followers are called Ramdasiye.

I know there’re some people who’ll have an itching problem after reading this.

If we do the translation of Ramdas in this shabad as the fourth guru, then the next line says that the people (mentioned in the earlier verse) couldn’t understand the way of Waheguru. Do you seriously think the fifth guru would write something like that? We say the jot of Waheguru took a form of Guru Nanak Dev ji, and then it passed through all the bodies of the Sikh Gurus and now it’s in Guru Granth Sahib ji. Are we saying the fifth guru didn’t know this? Well, to some extent the BHs and SSs can say this, but we Sikhs don’t say this. Why? Because Gurbani says Guru Ramdas can liberate the people from the cycles of birth and death, and his ways can’t be understood.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਲਖ ਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣੰ ॥੩॥ - ਅੰਘ ੧੪੦੨

Now why we used the meaning of Ramdas in the above verse as Guru Ramdas ji? Because this comes under Savaiye Mahalle Chothe ke in Gurbani.